engine questions

[Voodoo Barstool Racers]

how do you install n.o.s,and a turbo on briggs,and tecumch engines.Any info,will help.

[FatDog]

You beat me to that question.
I also want to NOS my Tec 6.5 and was interested on who makes them.

But i have never seen a turbo'd lawnmower before. That is a new one on me. These engines run typically on high RPM's so maybe a turbo would be a natural, i just can't believe that someone has manufactured one for these little rabbit engines.

[RUBICON]

I will speak of what I know little of first and that is turbo's..There is one pic of a turbo on a stool engine. The details are basic and looks and sounds ligitimate. It has a makeshift oil pump and very nice detailing. The curiosity is that it is stated to have an IHI turbo but all my research on IHI I see nothing as small as the one in the pics. One fundamental about turbo's...You have to have enough exhaust volume and velocity to spin the turbine in order to get any boost...so use common sense on the displacement and rpm and figure it yourself...also imagine where the power band would be if it worked...there would be no torque advantage..only very top end boost....having said that ..they are way cool to look at....now for what I do have experience with...NOS ..I have a wet fogger on my stool...there are several pics floating on this site....If you don't want to build your own from parts...Holley is a start...their cheater system is around $200..this is a dry system (no fuel enrichment)...if you add a fuel pump, fuel solenoid valve, fuel hose, wet fogger nozzle, and jets....then add another $100 or more....It isn't cheap...and for some that struggle with a couple of extra bucks for good brakes..or...how to relocate a stock fuel tank...or basic fabrication details it might not be worth the effort ....I found very little information for the longest time...and experimented on jetting on my own...got lucky...have not puked the engine so far...but that a risk...finally talked to Nitrous Express Tech support in Calif. and his recommendations were exactly what I have....he also suggested running on gas only not liquid Nitrous...he said the cylinder pressures would be too high with liquid...I have used liquid until now...800psi thru a #12 NOS jet and 5psi fuel thru a #16 jet....I enable it around 50% of the rpm band so the engine won't bog on the shot....I also find that if I snap the throttle closed ( the system disables off of full throttle ) the engine will load up a lot and needs to stay at part throttle for a few seconds to clear the cylinder.....I can answer questions as they relate to my experience but I can say that it is hard to explain th efeel and sound when the NOS hits...its a rush...like an explosive scream....one day it will explode I am sure....one thing more....on a Brigs and only one gear you will be disengaging it when you reach the fear factor...on mine I shift to second...then third...then 4th....all on NOS...then reach my limit of fear and roll the throttle ...from start to shutdown is around 8 seconds and 40mph....good luck...remember...LIFE IS AN ADVENTURE....ENJOY THE RIDE!

[Voodoo Barstool Racers]

How do you install nos on the motor?

[RUBICON]

The system consists of the following: Bottle ( 10oz. "Sneeky Pete" to 1-1/2lb "motorcycle"), electric fuel pump ( mororcycle or aftermarket for VW and such for 5psi ), fuel and NOS solenoid valves, hoses ( Hypalon or braided SS), a fogger nozzle with fuel and NOS jets ( proper sized ), 12 volt battery to enable the fuel pump and solenoid valves, an enable switch to energize the pump and arm the throttle switch, a switch in the throttle linkage to squirt it at full throttle only....the fogget nozzle is screwed into a home made hub between the carb and the intake valve...if you have a lawnmower engine the carb manafold might get creative..if its a performance kart engine the carb can be spaced out with a block that has the nozzle in it.....I did a lot of research...with little info..and finally decided to learn it all myself the hard way...it works....and along with most everything on my stool ...i can say I designed it...rather than .....where did you buy that?...PS: Holley sells a dry kit and Nitrous Express knows me and can link you with the West coast tech support...I eventually talked to him and he confirmed my setup after I had got it right....good luck

[TiCk_FLiP]

I will speak of what I know little of first and that is turbo's..There is one pic of a turbo on a stool engine. The details are basic and looks and sounds ligitimate. It has a makeshift oil pump and very nice detailing. The curiosity is that it is stated to have an IHI turbo but all my research on IHI I see nothing as small as the one in the pics. One fundamental about turbo's...You have to have enough exhaust volume and velocity to spin the turbine in order to get any boost...so use common sense on the displacement and rpm and figure it yourself...also imagine where the power band would be if it worked...there would be no torque advantage..only very top end boost....having said that ..they are way cool to look at....now for what I do have experience with...NOS ..I have a wet fogger on my stool...there are several pics floating on this site....If you don't want to build your own from parts...Holley is a start...their cheater system is around $200..this is a dry system (no fuel enrichment)...if you add a fuel pump, fuel solenoid valve, fuel hose, wet fogger nozzle, and jets....then add another $100 or more....It isn't cheap...and for some that struggle with a couple of extra bucks for good brakes..or...how to relocate a stock fuel tank...or basic fabrication details it might not be worth the effort ....I found very little information for the longest time...and experimented on jetting on my own...got lucky...have not puked the engine so far...but that a risk...finally talked to Nitrous Express Tech support in Calif. and his recommendations were exactly what I have....he also suggested running on gas only not liquid Nitrous...he said the cylinder pressures would be too high with liquid...I have used liquid until now...800psi thru a #12 NOS jet and 5psi fuel thru a #16 jet....I enable it around 50% of the rpm band so the engine won't bog on the shot....I also find that if I snap the throttle closed ( the system disables off of full throttle ) the engine will load up a lot and needs to stay at part throttle for a few seconds to clear the cylinder.....I can answer questions as they relate to my experience but I can say that it is hard to explain th efeel and sound when the NOS hits...its a rush...like an explosive scream....one day it will explode I am sure....one thing more....on a Brigs and only one gear you will be disengaging it when you reach the fear factor...on mine I shift to second...then third...then 4th....all on NOS...then reach my limit of fear and roll the throttle ...from start to shutdown is around 8 seconds and 40mph....good luck...remember...LIFE IS AN ADVENTURE....ENJOY THE RIDE!

Bro... do you think you know what size turbo he is using on his stool?

[FatDog]

what size turbo ?? ....
... like Rubicon said ... I would be sort of surprised to find a turbo that is optimally sized for an application such as our BarStool Racers. I just can't imagine running a BarStooler at high RPM's for an extended period of time, so i'd bet not too many people make them for these size engines.
I did see a very small turbo on EBAY and it looks like it would fit our applications, but again it seems on our application that it would be more for looks then real performance gains. The turbo i saw would be a better performance fit for a 400EX quad or something like that. (hey,... sort of like the NOS system i got, well .. they at least do have some real attainable and measurable performance gains)

i think my point is, if you can find a teeny turbo, and you figure you can run your Stool at high R's for extended periods of time, and the cost of a turbo which i figure would be 2 or 3 times higher then NOS doesn't frighten you off, then buddy i can pretty much guarantee you will make the cover of 'BarStool Magazine'. And then next i'd like to make the cover of 'Offroad BarStooler Magazine' .. and then 'Hot Rod BarStooler' ... 'Better Homes and BarStools' ..

[TiCk_FLiP]

what size turbo ?? ....
... like Rubicon said ... I would be sort of surprised to find a turbo that is optimally sized for an application such as our BarStool Racers. I just can't imagine running a BarStooler at high RPM's for an extended period of time, so i'd bet not too many people make them for these size engines.
I did see a very small turbo on EBAY and it looks like it would fit our applications, but again it seems on our application that it would be more for looks then real performance gains. The turbo i saw would be a better performance fit for a 400EX quad or something like that. (hey,... sort of like the NOS system i got, well .. they at least do have some real attainable and measurable performance gains)

i think my point is, if you can find a teeny turbo, and you figure you can run your Stool at high R's for extended periods of time, and the cost of a turbo which i figure would be 2 or 3 times higher then NOS doesn't frighten you off, then buddy i can pretty much guarantee you will make the cover of 'BarStool Magazine'. And then next i'd like to make the cover of 'Offroad BarStooler Magazine' .. and then 'Hot Rod BarStooler' ... 'Better Homes and BarStools' ..


Actually...the reason i was asking what size it is, is because im not planing to put it on a bar stool... I want to put it on my Suzuki Raider 150cc ...A Motorbike. So no intensions of getting into magazines.

So Br are you saying that the turbo bar stool doesnt really wrk, and that its only there for looks and not performance?

[FatDog]

actually,. i don't have any intention of getting into magazines either .... i've never been one for fancy paint jobs and those magazines insist upon that.

but turbos are definitley a LOT more then just for show, in fact i think they are the ultimate power machine in my opinion. I prefer them over NOS by a long shot, and i prefer them over superchargers as well,
but just not on a barstooler.
the engine is too small, and the tiny BarStool is more for play then for GO

but a bike is different
Its just that i don't see a 150 being worked at sustained high RPM's either which is where the turbo kicks in, .. and with the little turbo lag that is inherent in turbos, you might feel its gain only rarely

if it was me , and a 150 sized bike, and i wanted to performance it, i would personally work the engine. Get a perf cam, bigger valves and springs, bigger carb jets and exhaust, high perf pistons. I'll bet the cost of doing something like that would be comparable to a good turbo, except that you would feel the extra power throughout the entire RPM spectrum. Plus its easy to get those parts or have the work done for you.

[FatDog]

by the way TiCK_FLiP ...
do you have that Raider here in the USA?
what do you think of that bike? and what kind of riding do you do on it?
Mike

[RUBICON]

I am not an expert by any means...but a fair armchair expert...Installing a turbo is more than plumbing and cute looks...They require the following to function:
first and foremost...enough exhaust volume and velocity to spin the compressor..turbo's have data curves that show the amount of exhaust required to obtain what amount of boost..i would think 150cc would be off the bottom of the chart..

but lets say you could get enough pressure to spin it...lets say after 30 seconds of full throttle....then the 1 or 2 horsepower would be gained at boost....

then there is the plumbing...exhaust in and out...and air in and to the carb...don't forget the oil pump and cooler to lube the hot section bearings....I doubt that a waste gate would be needed..hah

The closest I came to applying a turbo was to get the smallest...remove the rotor and use it for looks..

NOS is a different story...for $300 or so...some installation detailing...and a wet nozzle in your intake behind the carb....an activation switch,,,and you will see a REAL increase in power...instantly....mine works great..good luck

remember....LIFE IS A JOURNEY...ENJOY THE RIDE

[sniffles]

hey everybody i asked a guy at nitrous express if you could put a nitrous on a briggs 6.5 . i told him it was for a stool. he said yah heres a kit. he said he had put that kit on a stool. i gave him a link over to this site. the kit is nitrous express #60011 . the only other thing you have to do is install a 12v battery.

[sweav]

Just to add on the turbo on small engines. Ove the years alot of us at work have come up with odd and ends. One of us has come up with a SMALL mitsubishi turbo and we played around for a bit. Rubicons right, by the time we had enough exhaust flow to spool it up we maxed on rpm amd it did nothing. The way I feel is that putting a turbo on any cyngle cyl. motor is going to have the same effect, just not enough volume to really get the turbo to work and get any gain from it. The NOS is the way to go for the kick in the ass boost. Hey Rubicon, I don't think I'm going to have my nos set up when I get mine finished. It is going to have to be added on later, also how did that caster adjustment work out?

[RUBICON]

SWEAV...I rode it this week...I have tweaked the toe out 2 times and it is getting sweet......not as scary at top speed...I usually let up when the engine peaks....I am concerned that when I run it for a one time show when the strip opens in February that I can sustain the speed all the way to the lights.....don't care about speed...just a nitrous purge on the line...3 wheelstands and a time slip to frame with the best pic of the run.....then retire it before its too late...

[elvergon]

I have to agree everybody in here. Just don´t forget that you can always make the exhaust pipe (which turns the turbine) smaller, so you can get greater pressure.I don´t think that this type of engines can boost a car turbo, that is just ilogical. Most turbos hit up to 18 psi, some more, so I think that a 1 psi gain would be noticed and probably significant. Another important stuff here, is that there are some turbos for motorcycles (I´ve seen a 1200 BMW with one). Probably they are much smaller. MAYBEEE there is someone that does a little turbo, which could be usefull =)

One day when I was doing my researchs on turbos I came up with a brilliant idea (well brilliant for that day). What about leaf blowers? Well, let me tell you this. I installed a black and decker leaf blower which would feed all the air intake pipe and before the mass detector. Yeah, my idea was to put a 110 V power inverter so I could run it on AC and I could use it only when I was playing in the street, for I don´t know, 15 secs or something like that.

The result? well, actually believe it or not, it worked, but only for the 800-200 0 revs range. After that, the leaf blower could not push enough air into the intake so it could have a boost. But it did for that range! Maybe it was just me, but I felt the tach was going faster, you could see the air intake hose (which was plastic) filled of air, pretty hard, and after the 2000 RPM the hose would loose it pressure and become soft again. You could actually see the pressure in there.

SOOO this gets me to the point. Well, a car needs a HUGE amount of air, most leaf blowers are capable of 600 CFM which is pretty cool. Well most cars are in the 2000 C.C. range. But what about small engines? ;) they are about 100-400 C.C. in range. So,...Would this work in a small engine?, maybe you could just put a button on the stool handlebar and activate the leaf blower, you could probably buy those recheargable electric leaf blowers (I think I saw some, is that right? I really don´t remember).

Probably people who know about this must be thinking, OK leave blowers are made for Volume moving, not pressure. Yeah, that´s right, but I think that they could probably lift 1 or 2 psi. Which is pretty significant too, cause most superchargers are in the 5 psi range, and get a lot of power out of that. I mean, just 1 psi, means more oxygen and better combustion.

Just my .02, those are my ideas, but I really tried doing that and it worked...ohh yeahh, why don´t I do it again? ....well, leaf blower was not mine, so I can´t play with it right now to show you guys some vids.!