Tire mounting

[FatDog]

These little tires aint super easy to mount on the one piece wheels.
Are you guys forcing the tire over the rim using soapy water?
I got one tire completely mounted, and am going to leave the other three while i finish my BSR until i can think of a better way.

Don't tell me you guys are bringing it to the local cycle shop, well ... are you???

[monkey-1]

Getting the tires on the wheels is the easy part. Getting the bead seated is the hard part. I use some silicone spray and slide it on the first side, then take some long screwdrivers and wedge it over on the second side. Then the battle continues to get the tire to take air.

[D&Jracing]

they mae a band that goes around the tire to seat the bead or run a racthet strap around it a few times ove the whole area of the tire and add air... andd boop! it goes

[stool-sample]

Take them to a race shop or someone who knows how to do it! Its a pretty dangerous thing to do without the right tools. Ive heard the horor stories about the tires comming apart. I mount them at our shop for guys all the time. I use silicon spray to pop the bead on but I also have a tire band while airing the tire.

[FatDog]

I think this website has been down for a couple days, at least i haven't been able to get on it ... but i'm starting to think it aint a backyard mechanic with-a-beer-in-your-belly task to seat these darn things. i wasn't able to read replies until after trying like a dog for a couple hours.

I was having a heck of a time seating the beads, so i took my 4 tire/wheels to a large local ATC service shop and after a couple hours labor they could seat ONLY one ! (They didn't charge me anything although i told 'em i would pony up some cash, but they wouldn't take anything.)

So i'll find a race shop !??! I mean we are talking gokart tires right ??!!!?
I almost felt a little silly walking into a ATV shop with them, so I have to go find a NASCAR shop too ??!!?! LOL

But this is darn serious. My BSR is starting to look sweet and in theory I'll be needing some wheels to run it.

I have NOS, and the piece-of-resistance (LOL, hey, hows my spelling??) is a Banjo steering wheel. Thats a throw back to RatFink Ed's era.

At any rate, the poor guy at the ATC shop asked me if i was sure the tires i got were made for the size wheels i got. Good question buddy.

rear: Dunlop 11.5 x 8.00-6 with Douglas 6x10 wheel
front: Dunlop 11.5 x 6.00-6 with Douglas 6x7.25

so far all 4 are mounted with only one front seated.

[stool-sample]

Try taking a 5 gallon bucket and cut it about 10" wide all the way around to use for a band. Now get a HEAVY ratchet strap to crank down on it.I have seen this work. Just be careful doing it this way!! Glenn

[Mike Bean]

Fat Dog,

I mounted my tires myself. I used some WD-40 on the beads and filled them up with air. A few were a bit tougher, but I got them on in about 30 minutes.

Do you have an air compressor to fill the tires?

Mike

These little tires aint super easy to mount on the one piece wheels.
Are you guys forcing the tire over the rim using soapy water?
I got one tire completely mounted, and am going to leave the other three while i finish my BSR until i can think of a better way.

Don't tell me you guys are bringing it to the local cycle shop, well ... are you???

[FatDog]

yea I have good air,
and i am going to use that 5-gallon pail cut down to size trick, with a strap around it to hold it down, ...

and i also will try first taking out the needle valve from the wheel and just hold in the air with a pressure nozzle, and give it a supreme blast of air to try and seat the things. If i can just force the tire out, it should stay there forming a loose touch with the wheel and then i'll replace the valves and air up.

but as I look at the rear wheel, the sides of the wheel each stick out a good inch from where the tire stops. On each side. Thats a lot of room for the air to escape. thats why i'm going to try the SUPER air shot, and will try it without the valve just to see if that helps. I will try it that way because i don't know how much of a blast those valves can withstand. The tire should hold its form if i can just blow it out towards the rim's edge.

heck, i'll try it with the valves in, and then with them removed.

if that don't work i'll fill them with rubber cement and run solids. well, .... i won't really do that

[Mike Bean]

FatDog,

When I mounted mine, I had to over inflate the tire to get some of the beads to seat. What pressure are you using on the tires?

Mike

[FatDog]

" ... What pressure are you using on the tires? ..."

Now i am officially worried ....
... i just pumped one rear tire to 85 !!!!!! and it wouldn't seat the bead ...
and the bead was a good solid inch past the profile of the tire tread.
Something is wrong here in tire land.

I am thinking i got the wrong combo of tire/wheel size.

By the way, if i had a picture of me hunched over that tire pressured at 85 pounds, with a strap and my two hands holding the tire in, with my two eyes closed as hard as i could, hoping my head wasn't about to be blown off by an exploding tire and aluminum douglas wheel, ... well that was quite the adventure.
i'm letting the tire heat up some in the sun before i take my shotgun out and dispatch it to its heaven.

Do you think my size tire/whell combo is way off???

[Mike Bean]

FatDog,

I have never had to go that high on the pressure. I think my max was 50 - 60psi. and then I was a bit worried myself. :eek:

Be careful.. I would make some calls to the place where you got the tires and rims because something seems wrong.

Mike

[FatDog]

alright, i get the guys on the phone who i got the wheels and tires from.
he is of course laughing hysterically
glad i could bring some merriment into his life
(actually it IS pretty darn funny)

they race karts, know karts, live karts, ... and all use the same general size tire/wheels that i bought. ...... so O.K., i guess i am about right then ..
so i ask them how they mount them and they said the same thing that i have generally heard here on this website:

- a 5 gallon METAL can
- a extra strap around the tire if i can fit it
- as MUCH windex as possible, and then use some more. they stress windex !
- windex the tire inside and out at the bead area
- windex the 5 gallon can so the tire can slip around as it fills
- take the valve out IF possible and my air nozzle will take it
- 120 pounds of air if my compressor can supply it (it will)

he laughed and said blow 'er at 120 and it will be seated NO QUESTIONS
and then they run 'em at around 15 pounds in kart racing
oh, ... and one more thought he had ... keep your fingers AWAY from the wheel edges as it seats. (no foolin' ehhh??)

i am now going to pop a budweiser and fill my tank up to 125 pounds
wish me luck gentlemen
this is going to be one awesome setup, i would prefer to be alive to see it

[Woodchuckscustoms.com]

:cheers: Check out this web site and go to the tech shop page there is some great direction on how to do this with no tools http://www.burrisracing.com/ I use these rims on all my BSR's and they work great

[sniffles]

heres also a good site http://www.hedelands-motorklub.dk/GoKart/Teknik_-_Siden/Tires/tires.html
once you have the the tire on the rim click on the inflate link in the last paragraph....great instructions

[Mike Bean]

Sniffles,

After reading the link you posted, I think I got lucky. I used my hands to push the tires on the rims with very little trouble and then lubed up the beads and imflated.

The biggest problem I had was getting the beads to seat, but after a few high pressure inflations they all popped. Nothing I would not do again myself.

Now trying to change tires and break the bead is a whole nother story...

Mike :blob_red:

[RUBICON]

FATDOG...let me know how the nitrous works...mine is great..I will swap advice with you on it...

[stool-sample]

Im here to tell you , even with all the tools to mount these damn tires I still run the pressure up over 100. Some just dont want to be mounted. Now if you would like the racing cut tires. Inflate to 15 psi and put them in moms freezer. When you get them out after about an hour, quick mount it and use your 4" grinder to knock down some of the rubber. You will get better grip doing this!! Glenn

[FatDog]

Well, .. i got the two smaller fronts to bead.
'No go' on the two wider rears however, although i only worked on one of them for a couple minutes.
I filled my 30 gallon air tank to 140 pounds, and dropped the air into the rear tire, and i could fill the tire to about 85 pounds, but then the air was equalized betwenn the tank and the tire (i must have lost a lot of air horsing around trying to get my remote tire inflator to seal).

But my rear tires are WIDE. I mean the wheels sticks out a bit more then an inch on both sides of the tire so it is really going to take some effort.
One thing i noticed on that great Buris tire link that was posted here, was to use a restraint that is the FULL width of the tread, not just a thin leather belt like I did. I will try again tonite. I was probably letting the tire swell too much in the middle and it didn't seat. Just the smaller fronts seated. But again, my rear wheels are WIDE.

Hey how about this trick for seating a bead - i bought a can of aeresol engine starter (not carb cleaner). An old 'tire man' told me that this is how the big truck tire men seated their problem tires. Squirt a bit of the ethanol (or whatever it is) into the tire, wait a couple seconds for it to dissapate within the tire evenly, toss a match in there, and dive for cover. !!!!!!!
He told me the big tire guys do that all the time, and that if you put too much of it in the tire, it will shoot 40+ feet into the air. !!! (You gotta love that guy!!!!!) I bought a can of it, but couldn't find any matches at home after I had squirted a tiny amount of it into the tire. I'll try anything once, or twice,....
The old guy told me it will seat any tire immediatly!!! when it blows.!!!

And Rubicon, we'll be swapping NOS stories soon, i hope
Mike

[stool-sample]

Years ago thats how we did our tires on the big trucks. Its faster than fighting with the bead sealers. Its not healthy .Try a dash of it and let me know how it works. Yes Im scared to do it nowadays! lol Glenn

[Voodoo Barstool Racers]

i use the engine starting fluid method,and it works,just be sure you use a small amount of the fliud and you'll be alright. Voodoo barstool racers

[josullivan]

Last summer while working as a heavy equipment mechanic, i was called by the boss to do a PM on a skidsteer loader. When I got to the job, the darn thing had a couple of flats on it. I too had heard from tire mechanics about using engine starting fluid containing (ether) to spray into the tire to seat the bead. Not having the proper tools or knowlege to do it the right way, I opted to utilize what I had on hand. I sprayed about 3 to 5 seconds worth into the first tire, then waited a few seconds... All I had was a lighter on me, so I flicked my bic an BOOOOOOM!!! I lost the hair on my left arm and had no eyebrows for a while, but it worked great! On the second tire, I just used less ether and was prepared for the explosion... No problems... Best of luck to you if you attempt setting your beads this way... Be sure to wear gloves and long sleeves and ready to jump real high!! :eek:

[Voodoo Barstool Racers]

I here what your saying,but i been doing it for a while,so i know what i'm doing. Voodoo barstool racers

[FatDog]

Josullivan
the ol' guy who told me about the ether spray also had a couple stories to tell. ( there is just something about talking to some 65 year old mechanic who is going to retire in three months and tour the U.S. in his motorhome - that guy had me in stitches for a while. ) He told me the correct amount of ether to shoot into a car tire to blow it 30 feet into the air, if it is funnelled by truck tires. he was just full of all kinds of useful information. LOL

And i don't mean to hijack this thread, well .. i guess i do, ...but then i started it LOL.....
but he told me he had a golpher problem one time, and he found one of the gopher holes and gave it a 3 or 4 second blast every couple feet of so for a handful of feet,.. stepped back and let the fumes travel along the gopher hole, and then tossed a match into one open hole and he dived for cover.
It blew a hole in the ground 2 feet by 4 feet, and the lady who lived across the street from him had been taking a bath and she claimed it blew the cork out of the drain hole in the bathtub. At any rate she immediatly called the sheriffs. The old guy told me that it was kind of hard to deny that he knew anything about the explosion to the sheriffs becuase there was a big f'n hole in the middle of his front lawn.!!!!!

I of course recognized that this is exactly the sort of guy we need here on this forum and I invited him on, but he said he cain raisin' days are over and he just wants to RV around the U.S.. No more fabricating or exploding.
fair enough i told him

That 3 to 5 seconds would be a lot by what this ol' guy told me, but maybe your tires were heavier. At any rate he told me to give my kart tires a one second shot.

Figures, that night i go home as excited as a guy on a first date, give my slick a one second shot, .... and i can't find a blasted match anywhere in my house. (what kind of loser can't find a match in his house??)
But i got a box of them now, and i'm about to get off of work and go a tire settin' and a gopher huntin'.

[RUBICON]

I used to struggle a lot..now I struggle a little with tire mounting...I took a 5/8" x 4" bolt and welded it to the end of a 12" long piece of 1" square tubing. I put this "stub axle" in a vise pointing up. I then use a spare front hub ( 5/8" ) and mount the wheel to the hub and hub to the stub axle. I soap the rim and tire bead generously. Hold the tire over the edge of the rim furtherest from you and pull down and toward you....The first bead it a piece of cake...almost silly easy....soap again and this time its the same drill but a little more work...the key is keeping the rear bead real low and pull toward you...I'm 58 years old....works for me...good luck

ps: if you read warnings ...kart tires are not to be seated over 50psi I think? First make sire the wheel is not corroded in the seating area ( I have even polished mine ) and use soap on the bead and inside the rim...

[FatDog]

Rubicon
i like your idea, but don't picture it 100%
You are giving it some air as you pull 'down and in' on the tire?
or are you just manually snapping the bead 'out'?

good idea
Mike

[RUBICON]

The Stub Axle holds the wheel and with everything well soaped..hold the tire at an angle and with the wheel between you and the tire...pull the tire toward your chest..the first tire bead will pull over the rim so easy you will think the rest is easy...but not quite..now soap everything again ...push the rear bead down to the middle of the wheel and pull real hard....this is where the struggle starts..the key is keeping the rear bead low as possible...then with your fingers gripand pull forward more than down...it will slowly work down...I take a sheet of plastic cut from a 5 gallon bucket to wrap the tire and a ratcheting tie down strap to expand the tire beads...remove the valve stem...the rest is easy...be carefull not to overpressurize the tire...50psi max ( to set the bead ) i think is the tire spec...remember these aint car tires...good luck

[FatDog]

Well i seated the rear slicks saturday, and it was fun.
I had my spray can of ether and a couple boxes of wooden matches in my back pocket, .... but didn't get to use them, darn ....

The secret to seating the really WIDE slicks, tires that extend past the rim's lip by over an inch on both sides, ... well I have determined the secret to do it to be exactly three things:

1) a full restraint for the 'tread' part of the tire to keep it from bulging there as you try to seat the bead. I had originally just been using a come-a-long strapped directly to the tire itself which wouldn't keep the tire from a slight bulge. I then cut a piece of sheetmetal 12" wide and strapped that to the tire. That turned out to be key. It held the tire tight.

2) 123 POUNDS OF AIR !!!!!! and not one pound less !!! 123 !!!!
Both of my rear tires seated at 123 on the nose !!!
As i was inflating the tires to seat them, I couldn't help reading on the side of the tire what it says is its maximum inflation, and let me tell you, it aint 123 !
Those lil' 6" aluminum Douglas rims aint designed for 123 either I imagine, so that is what required #3:

3) 4 cans of Budwieser liquid courage in operator's belly
(.... and I made myself a steel tire rack with remote air inflation operation ... )

Sweet jese, those wide slicks look smokin' !!!! And i still have all me fingers.

[sniffles]

do you guys like burris or douglas rims better? i was looking at apskarting and how much more expensive the burris rims were. i know woodchuck uses them and his wheels look good.

[bm1]

First off, on mounting the tires. Look at the rim, front and rear. Always mount from the shallow side. You can do this with your hands without screwdrivers(which can bend your pretty aluminum wheels). Place the wheel shallow side up on a piece of carpet or cardboard(something soft as not to scratch it). I take a rag and spray some Armor-All on the rag and wipe the bead of the tire with it. I don't use any soap and water or any liquid. I race Enduro karts at speeds well over 100mph and when a tire gets hot, that water will turn to steam and the tire pressure will go to the moon. That's why I just use the Armor-All. Now, grab the tire with both hands with the heel of you hand in the center of the tread. At an angle, start the tire on the wheel and push down with a little force. The bead will pop right on. Do the same for the other bead only this time, your palms will be on the sidewall of the tire. Start at an angle and push. POP! it's on. I mount kart tires everyday and have never used a screw driver. Sounds hard, but it really isn't. If you don't have any Armor-All, use a little bit of hand cleaner.....without the grit. DL works good also GOOP.

As for popping the bead. You WILL have a difficult time if the wheel is too wide for the tire. Wheel should be 1" wider than the tire. If the wheel is too wide, and you do get it to seat, it will stretch the sidewall out and the center(contact patch) of the tire will be concave leaving only the outside edges of the tire for grip. This can create some big surprises in a high speed turn.
Good luck!

[sniffles]

hi i have bridgestone ygk 7.1s and 4.5s. im going to use 7-3/4" and 4.5". is it easier to bead up a tire that is the same size as the wheel or harder. my back tires will be big..bought um off ebay new for 72 dollars for all four of them.

[bm1]

You shouldn't have any trouble beading your tires with the rim sizes you have. It's when you try to put a narrower tire on a really wide rim that gives you headaches.