Rear brake with Differential problem to solve

[altrego30]

I want to use a differential for my BSR, I used one on the Family Kart I built so I do know the issues with brakeing.
So, I'm not flat spotting one tire, Im looking for a set up to mount the brake disk to the diff, Great idea posted by "RUBICON" with Pics...
I don't weld aluminum so I'm hosed on that one.( NO TIG ) I really dont want to use a dual (HYD) brake set up ($$$$).
Are there any companies that make this set up, if not, why not?
(RUBICON get a patent fast)
I was looking at the differentials at "Northern Tool"
Anyone have some links to companies selling differentials, and or a setup like I'm talking about?

[monkey-1]

If your differential is not a 'locking' type you are going to run into problems. If you brake the input and the diff is not locked, it will allow one tire to stop and the other to spin in reverse, it wont stop both sides at the same time.

[altrego30]

I have been to your web site a while back, I found the link on outlawracing.net
Their BSRs look great.
Your golfcarts look like a blast.
Anyway, so fill me in on the locking diff .
I do see what you are saying about one wheel still turning. SO what can I do.

[RUBICON]

Monkey...your response is confusing....there ase posi diffs,,,Comet sells them....I do not have experience with that...I do however have the ONLY experience that has been documented ( meaning that I have read ) on this site with differentials on bar stools!!!)...My experience with a disk brake on th eright axle was that the right tire locked first...not catistropic...just noticed it...then I moved the disk and caliper to the diff...I welded a 3/8" ring to the right side of the diff housing and bolted the disk...now the brake stops the diff..therefore both axles and the inertia of the chain drive....I will not criticize Monkey for his response...he has helped me in th epast and is a major contributor......use common sense.....if the diff is braked....the only reversal in rotation will be as the result of one tire in major grip and the other in major slip.....when will you brake with one tire on grip and the other on ice?....thinki!

[altrego30]

I love the pics RUBICON, Like I stated in this thread. It's a great idea, but there has to be another way. The diff I used on my Family Kart, I got at Northern tool
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=35768&R=35768
I realy don't know who makes it. But I was thinking of useing one of these cut down for my BSR. any ideas.

[WOTracer]

The differential is manufactured by Peerless. I have used two of these successfully; one on a BSR the other for a Shriner mini-T. I also will be using one on my 2nd BSR that will have 5hp electric motor! A brake as well as a sprocket carrier can be used that will mount directly to the diff housing. In fact Peerless sells #41 in two different sizes, can't remember the tooth count off hand. As far as the brake, I used a standard brake disc and modified it. Quite easy to do, mill/bore/grind the to 2.25 in, then use the diff housing as a template to drill the four holes to mount the disc. Don't qoute me on the disc hole size, can't quite recall the exact demensions.


Steve
Wide Open Throttle Racing

[moto1fast]

Hello, Let's see if I can help with this problem. Rubicon and WOTracer are on the mark!! You must put a disc brake on the diif. housing for it to work the way you want it to. There are several ways to do this. You can do like Rubicon has done welding a ring on to the diff and mounting the disc to it. You say you are not a welder and you want to do it a different way, if I Understand you right. Try this then, Build a disc that will fit the Diff housing bolt pattern, In other words build it to bolt on to the diff using the Housing bolts. If you do this you will have to get longer bolts to put the housing with disc back together. Another way to do this would be to put a jack shaft between the engine and diff and put a brake on it! That is a option and will work but the cost and time would be higher and also the lengeth on the bsr would have to be longer to install the jackshaft. You could also put rear brakes on both sides of the axle. You could also put your brakes on the front,but I would not do that!!! Thats all the ways I can come up with. My rear end will be using a diff. to and am going with Rubicons set up only not welding on it but making the disc to bolt on to the housing bolts. Goood Luck!!!:wave:

[RUBICON]

Great Ideas....anyone that has looked at the Peerless ( they make most all tractor mower transmissions ) can see that it is shaped like a soup can with flat sides and case bolts thru it...the sprockets made for this bolt to one side and you modify a standard solid disk to fit the other side...The Comet SD-1 is tapered on both sides and the case bolts are thru case flanges in the center. I was for a time considering fabricating a donut shaped ring that would use the case bolts and act as a standoff adapter to locate the disk to the right of the sprocket...about 2-1/2" from the sprocket...this allows room for the caliper.....I may have said this before but My experience is that when I grab a handfull of brake it will lock up both tires like when I had a solid axle...feels great....have fun designing

[monkey-1]

Rubicon, where are the pics of your setup? I am sure I have seen them, I just cant recall them now.

[RUBICON]

I will get a new set together and send to your e-mail address...THANKS...along with a couple of videro

[altrego30]

I went with the peerless ( SOUP CAN ) diff, got it today, they don't make a sprocket small enough, or at least they didnt have any, I used the bolt pattern to drill out a 52 tooth sprocket, and I modified a disk for the other side, ( this took a couple hours) as soon as my digital camera charges I will Put up som Pics.
Thanks for the help

[altrego30]

This is what I came up with today.
Just have to add bearing hangers, I will figure that out tomorrow....

[RUBICON]

Here are a couple of pics...hopefully small enough to attach...I found my 12 year old digital camera that will allow lower resolution than my 8.5...Try to duplicate the same tubing you have on the existing bearing hangers and tack them as close to the diff as possible...I used a 1-1/4" chrome moly tubular axle cut in half with splined stub shafts plug welded in the ends to mate with the Comet SD-1...I machined ( tool post grinder ) the plug welds off smooth so it would slide thru the bearing....good luck...looks great....you will love the diff...the only thing you cant do is ride on 2 side wheels....but the trade off is worth it!..I threw in a couple of pics of stool and NOS system

[altrego30]

This is a strait shot from the front with the new hangers installed, followed the frame but steped down the tube size from 1 1/4", to 1"

[RUBICON]

Great looking frame...like the handlebar clamps...gives you lots of options of handlebar styles and rises....

[altrego30]

Problem solved, should have the frame complete by tomorrow,
thanks everyone

[altrego30]

OK, SO this is what I came up with,
and damb am I haveing a hell of a time bleeding the breaks.
No matter what I do, I get bubbles..

[WOTracer]

From the pic, your caliper is upside down. The bleeder(s) should be on the top. This will let the air easily rise to the top, and out the bleeders.
By the way, nice frame-keep it going!!!



Steve
Wide Open Throttle Racing

[moto1fast]

Hello, If you take the caliper off the mounting bracket and put it with the bleeder at the top, put a piece of steel about the same size of the rotor in where the brake pads press against it, then bleed it. It also helps when you pull the caliper off you put it where it is below the master cylinder it works better to bleed it! Then put it back on and your ready to go!:wave:

[altrego30]

Thanks I will try that.

[monkey-1]

Also, on the MCP master cylinder, you are better off bleeding it by hand. Take your cable loose from the master cylinder and bleed it like that. You have to let that come ALL THE WAY back to the rest position. The orifice in that MC is really small and you have to allow it to open all the way back up and fill with fluid before pumping it again. Pump, bleed, let it open all the way up, wait about 10-15 seconds, pump again, repeat. Take your time and let it fill up with fluid. When I did mine on my BSR, I went through a quart of brake fluid because it wouldnt bleed. I called MCP and the guy that designed the MC told me this and I bled it in about 5 mins.

[altrego30]

I will give that a try this week. I will let you know how it worked.