Welding Aluminum

[Canadiankid]

How hard is it to weld aluminum with a mig. I'm an ameture at best when it comes to welding. I have a 110 volt lincon mig and every thing I know (which aint much) about welding has been learned from destruction testing (weld it together then bash it apart with my 5 lb sledge). Do I need to buy a special gun to weld aluminum or can you put aluminum wire in the regular spool holder.

[Mike Bean]

Canadiankid,

I have not done any welding on aluminum, I have read that you need to have a special or aluminum only liner in the gun assembly because particles from the steel wire can contaminate the aluminum wire.

You also need to clean aluminum very good and I think a special wire brush or a brush you only use on aluminum.

I have also heard that you should pre-heat the metal before welding.

Mike Bean

[altrego30]

I think you need a TIG or a stick welder to do aluminum, never heard of anyone useing a mig for that.

[Mike Bean]

Altrego30,

Believe it or not, you can MIG aluminum. When I purchase my Lincoln Pro MIG 175 it specifically stated that on the box and in the manual. That's where I read about the gun liner. I believe they make a special liner for that type of welding.

They also sell spools of aluminum wire for that purpose.

Mike

[Woodchuckscustoms.com]

Welding alum. with a mig is possable if you have the mini hand spool gun. and run diff. gas. You really need the alum. spool gun to do a nice job. if you use the normal mig gun with alum. you will need to change the liner and theres something else..... cant think of it right now.:cheers:

[altrego30]

Would you still use the sheilding gas, and do the weld turn out as good as a tig?

[Mike Bean]

You would need to use 100% Argon, and then welds will turn out good, but maybe not a small as TIG. But I know MIG can be used for welding aluminum.

Mike

[bombadierx5]

There isn't much info on the web pertaining aluminum welding with mig. After burning every piece of aluminum I could find I finally figured it out. It is best to use the Lincoln 175, but the 135 will work on thinner metal. Pure argon DC+ argon flowhigher than tig settings, 30 to 35 cfh. Heat settings about the same as for steel, wire speed about 4 times faster than steel settings. This is a hot and fast process and with a little practice can produce a good looking bead. You can get the aluminum conversion kit for about $55 to $65 off the web. The best wire to use is the Lincoln super glaze 4043. Keep the cable and gun straight as possible when welding (for better feeding) and have your work piece very clean. At the end of your bead backweld about ¼" to prevent cracking. It doesn't really cost that much to get started with aluminum mig welding. Just another 2¢ worth.

[RUBICON]

bombadierx5 is dead on.....the weld appearance at its best with a seasoned (experienced) weldor will not come close to the bead of a tig. Mig aluminum is for pontoon boats and commercial marine structural assemblies. It does the job well from a structural standpoint in commercial fabrication. I have a friend that is shopping for a mig to do body and frame work. I have tried to stear him away from th eleast expensive machines...It seems like all the cut, grind, weld, beat, flog, grind, beat, weld crap shows have created a lot of wannabe fabricators and therefore sales in cheap 120v welders for the novice...what I have tried in the low end stuff can discourage a person that otherwise could do a good job if the machine was capable...I have advised him on established name brands and the higher amperage units 175 or so....good wire speed control and steady amperage control...I know that there may be a few out there that have had the same experience....

[Mike Bean]

I have to agree on the cheapie 125V welders. They are really only good for light weight metals when you MIG and you can (with a 135 AMP machine) flux weld a 1/8" BSR frame.

I have to admit it is nice to have access to a 110V outlet when you need to run a quick weld. I keep my 120V unit at home and I have my 220V, 175 AMP at the shop for the big stuff.

Mike

[hellbentrodder]

you guys are all right. what you will need is a teflon liner for your gun and try to keep it a straight as possible...spool guns will do a better job, but not really needed. use 100% argon at about 35cfh. You can use a little preheat with a torch as sort of a crutch for a lower amp machine and even then your beads will have a marginal appearance at best.

[Canadiankid]

I didn't do enough research I guess. Had I known the 175 was that much more welder than the 135 I would have spent the extra $100. Just thought 110v would be handy....could take it camping and power with my gen to repair the quads if needed.....would any of you suggest getting a bigger mig or would a different type of welder be a better second machine......remember this is a hobby so I cant justify spending thousands on a toy I cant ride.

[Terry Skinner]

Just for the fun of it Google "welding aluminum with gas". You will be surprised as to all the responses you will find. Once considered archaic, outmoded or dysfunctional, aluminum gas welding is enjoying a resurgence. Oxy-fuel torch welding is low-tech, inexpensive, and very reliable in the right situation. The thickness of the material and the skill (read practice) will have a lot of effect on your results. Also note that some types of aluminum are not weldable. Such as the 2024's. The other thing is that if the aluminum has been heat treated and you weld it the properties of the material will go back to "dead soft".
There you go. More information than you ever wanted to know.

HTH.......Terry

[Canadiankid]

Thanks Terry
I have a oxy-acetylene torch....didn't know you could weld aluminum with it....actually I have never tried welding with it at all. I'll try that search and do some reading.

[altrego30]

I think I will stick with the Mig for steel and I might get a Tig for me for aluminum some day. I will have to wait till next year when I am back from deployment in the Med.

[Terry Skinner]

Thanks Terry
actually I have never tried welding with it at all.

You don't know what you are missing. I have turned out some of the most beautiful welds with gas. The old Masarati bird cage frame was put together with 1/2" mild steel tubing and an acetylene torch. A work of art. Same with the frame in the gull-wing Mercedes. Like any skill it is just a mater of time, and like TIG welding it is considered artistic. MIG welding was invented to up production. Once the machine is set up properly anyone can run it.
Oops! There goes another one of those opinions.
Sorry guys......Terry

[RUBICON]

Terry...We are both weldors.....and in our own mind know how good we are....and have done all if not most methods.....I use this comment once in a while...it gets mixed reactions...what do you think?

" you can take a good monkey....a good mig.....with good setup...a stack of steel.....and build good trash dumpsters all day long"

I'ts interesting who sees the point....and just as interesting who doesn't!

[Terry Skinner]

" you can take a good monkey....a good mig.....with good setup...a stack of steel.....and build good trash dumpsters all day long"

Lets face it, that is exactly why MIGs were invented. Production welding. Take pride in your welding.When someone looks at something of mine and comments about how good the welds look I kinda swell up a little. Even after all these years.<G>
No one will notice how square the frame is, or how the inside edge of the rear tire lines up with the inside of the front tire even though they are different sizes. They won't even notice all the trouble you went to to get the logo on the seat square to the world. But every Tom, Dick, and Harry is a welding inspector. See, there goes another one of those opinions again........Terry

[Canadiankid]

Terry opinions and ideas are the back bone of a forum (with the odd fact)...Give you guys this much....you inspired me to give gas welding a try....after rubicon and your comments my ego wont let me not try....cuzz all I own is a mig.....and I aint much of a monkey. LOL Thanks for your input

[Terry Skinner]

....cuzz all I own is a mig.....

Don't kid your self, I own two wire feeds. One is a little 120v that I use on this and that kind of odd job such as tacking the floor boards in a rusted out VW. And I have a 220v 175 amp that I use for production work. But when it comes to looking good I have a 250 amp Miller that has a high frequency for TIG welding. Last but not least is a 300 amp Hobart DC generator that is so big and heavy it has its own trailer. The perfect thing for welding Cat blades or other heavy equipment. Each of us have our toys. Ask RUBICON, he is into machines such as lathes and milling machines and I will bet he is still good with a mill file because that is where he started.............Terry

[Canadiankid]

Just a guess but I think you both either make a living with these tools or did at one time. I cant justify 4 welders to putter in my garage with. It's just I have never tried gas welding and I have a torch set up so I am sure for a few dollars I can get set up..And with a little persistence I might be able to do things my little mig just cant.....Mabey some day I'll justify or afford something I can TIG with and start the learning curve all over again.....Hopefully someday technology will make it so I can afford cool toys like a CNC....Then the things I could build....look out......dreams and toys ain't it great

[RUBICON]

Remember the saying " Its not the size of your TOOL....but...How you use it"....its not what you have it what you can do with what you have....I look at stuff I made with a hacksaw, file, hand drill, sandpaper and a buffing wheel in a hand drill...machine screws instead of welds....I once painted a motorcycle tank with lacquer and a brush....30 coats.....hand sanded the last 5 or so...then cut and buffed...no one beleived it looked as good as a show bike....not my skill....the beauty of lacquer...put a lot on....take all but a little off and make it shine....

[Canadiankid]

I appreciate what you are saying....time vs money.....I work away from home and can't bring my tools or toys with me so I try to arrange my days off to be as productive as I can....And money isn't great yet so I try to spend my toy allowance as wisely as possible...as most people do I guess...in a couple of weeks I will be home again and will try to attempt gas weld some aluminum. If it works out I'll get after designing some stuff for my BSR that I have been thinking about. But that will be a project for another set of days off.....trying not to sound like ...poor me....but I love to tinker and spend hrs & hrs making something just so.... but that just aint in the cards any time soon. The only toy I get to spend any time on at work is my weed wacker powered blender.....which is coming along nicely.....MAY THE BAR BE OPEN AND THE BEERS BE COLD.....CHEERS

[RUBICON]

2 things:
Have you ever tried Eutectic rod for brazing aluminum?...It is sold at car shows and welding supply stores...It works kinda like brazing steel with brass...as you know the real problem with aluminum is that it oxidizes so easily...minutes after sanding it clean a thin layer of aluminum oxide forms...and when you heat it it does it faster...and the oxide melts at a much higher temperature...that makes a thin skum on the surface that hides the melt puddle.....I have never gas welded aluminum with a pure aluminum rod...my dad did...he said you have to use a reducing flame ( more acetyline )and stir the puddle with the rod ( dab into it constently )...the Eutectic rod is an alloy that melts at a lower temperature than the aluminum..and requires no flux...you still have to be careful not to get the metal too hot....just wipe it with the rod like it was solder waiting to melt...when it shines then dab it on like brazing...I welded a 3/8" hole on the bottom of a beer can with it...and the joints are strong in a similar relationship as brazing is to welding...if you prepare and design a good joint and fill it properly you can bend it 90 in a vise and it will hold.......it just isn't as pretty as a good tig bead...but it works....
#2.....weedwhacker blenders are cool...I have one saved for a future project....I am thinkin of a polished aluminum expansion chamber ( with the stinger pointed away from the user ) Look at Jegs.com for some scented oil for the premix ( no kidding)...comes in 8 or 10 flavors like pina colada..grape...cherry.....sure beats the old castor bean oil I used to race dirt with.....

[Canadiankid]

I haven't tried any kind of welding with gas. But I'm eating up all the info you experienced fabricators are willing to give up about what does work, what doesn't, and what I should try or watch out for. You can put money on the fact I will reread some of these posts (with a pen and paper) before I go to my local welding supply store when I get out of the bush. And I am having a hard time believing that I have never heard of scented premix oil. Not saying I don't believe you just saying I am suprised that I was unaware it was out there. I will be getting some of that too. Keep the info coming you guys. MAY YOUR MUG NEVER LOSE ITS CHILL

[RUBICON]

In machine shops in th eold days...we used sulfered oil to drip or squirt on tool bits while machining...it was a mess but worked...then along came water based emulsions for the same task...then teh shops got a rancid smell..it was bacteria in the stagnant coolant...then bacteriacide stuff....well I have a new 60 gal air compressor....and during break in the compresor oil was getting into the tank and into the air stream...not that it hurt the tools....bad for painting but I have filters for that...but it got that familiar stink about it....I was close to ordering a bottle of Fuitie Tootie or something like that to put in the compressor oil.....I also thought about hanging a " PISS BISCUIT" ( one of those round things you see in a urinal ) on the intake filter...then I realized my shop woyld smell like a public restroom or a ...well u get the idea...

[moose79]

u can mig aluminum but it is weak without the right welder..........u need a pulse welder that gives little bursts of heat and constant gas and wire.............verry verry expensive........tig will work
i used to work at a boat yard where we made million dollar yachts and our welders were like 25 grand a pce