Old 3.5HP Briggs? (More questions as well.)

[Ubel_Zum_End]

Hey I'm new here, this is my first post. This seems like a great forum with friendly people.
Anyway I'm Joseph, and I'm hoping to build a BSR.

Okay well I'm only 15 years old (Prolly youngest here by far.)
So yeah I really don't have the budget for 150CC engines with Nos, hydraulic brakes and crazy expensive differentials ect.

Just gonna weld together some old square angeling and make a frame pretty much, see where I can go.


I have an old 3.5HP, 4 cylinder Briggs engine, prolly at least 30 years old.

Wondering if this is powerful enough and what you guys think of it.
I think it'd be more powerful than a 3.5HP engine from today, because of all the EPA and whatnot.

Also I have a 350 watt, 36 volt motor with controller and batteries from an Electric scooter, with 13" wheel at its current sprockets the scooter could hit about 22mph.
Pondering using that for an Electric BSR as gas is not cheap these days and Electric is quiet.

Also I'm not sure about a differential, how would it run and steer with a live axel just to one wheel?

Thinking about using Mike Bean's Classic Cruiser plans, but as said I'm on a budget and just wanna use stuff I can get my hands on. Not sure how these plans would work. Also I'm not sure if these plans use a differential?


Thanks everyone,
Joseph

[moto1fast]

Hello, and Welcome to the forums! Age is not a factor for you! We have had young people build these for there first attempt at building anything and did quit well. On a Budget! Aren't we all? LOL:laughing: The 1" square tubing that is used to build the classic Cruiser would cost Only about 20.00 to 25.00. It takes about 24 feet of it! Depending if you build running boards. 20 feet if you do not! It is easier to work with New clean metal verses rusty metal. The 3.5 hp engine would be big enough to get you to about 25 to 30 MPH depending on your wieght and sprocket set up! Mikes plans are great just follow them and you should not have any trouble and if you do we will be here to answer any questions! The differential is the best way to go But it is more expensive. The frame would have to be modified some to put in a diff. because you need 2 more sets of bearings and hangers to support and hold the diff. A live axle would work ok but remember with just one wheel pulling it will pull to one side when taking off fast or heavy braking. A Axle set up where both wheels pull would be better if you will not be running a differential. The electric Motors and controler you have sounds like it would work great in a BSR but I do not have enough knowledge on it to help you out there. One of the other members would be better at helping you with this!! Glad to have you and Go For It!!!:thumb:

[Snakester]

Welcome Joseph, Glad to have new guy's anytime!!! Ask all the ?'s you want , take what ever parts and materials you can come up with and just start building...Don 't worry about plans and making it fancy just get it going and make it the way you want . The best part about this hobby is it isn't no rules or guidelines to follow , just do your own thing . All we want is pic's and maybe a video. If you get hung up just ask, we can help! Snakester:cool_dude: :cool_dude: :cool_dude:

[Ubel_Zum_End]

Haha thanks guys.
I also just found out that my Uncle has an older 5hp 4cy Honda Go-Cart engine that runs great he'll let me have. I believe it's 15-20 years old.

Anyway I'm only about ~120lbs. Really skinny >_<, so this thing should get going haha.

And once things get going I can definitely supply photos and videos :D

Thanks a lot,
Joseph

[Ubel_Zum_End]

Also I just noticed that I've been saying these engines are 4 cylinder all this time -.-.
I'm sure you know I meant 4 STROKE. But anyway sorry for the errors.

Joseph.

[Frozen Bohemian]

Hey Joe
I used a 1963 Briggs 3 1/2 hp on the "cheapo barstool" that I got for free. It's not a speed demon but it will scare the hell out you when you get it wound up (I am using a 60 tooth sprocket at the rear ).
A lower gear would make it a better ride, I used a 72 tooth sprocket on my sons go kart also with a 3 hp Briggs, and he can smoke me out of the hole. But no matter its all fun. I spent less than 100 bucks on my first barstool. The frame was made from 1 1/2" steel angle from an old bedframe. Search this website for photos of the "cheapo barstool".
The point is not how much you spend, but how creative you can be!!

Best of Luck!

[Ubel_Zum_End]

Thanks Frozen Bohemian.

That's one problem, I'm not really sure what size sprocket's or wheels I should use. Also the chain size.

Lets say I use the 5HP Honda my Uncle will give me, what size chain, sprockets and wheels do you guys recommend me?

I think I'll be riding mostly on pavement/concrete, But I live in Central Florida and the laws here are a bit iffy, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the Snowbirds called the cops on me haha.
So it would be cool if I could use a bit larger size wheels, ride on my lawn and not be afraid of bumps in the pavement, speed bumps and ect.

I don't really care much about being able to do a wheelie, but from what I've read 5HP on a BSR does that easily.
I'd like a nice mix of speed/torque.
I'm sure a Torque-A-Verter from what I've read would do that easily, but as said I don't have $200 to shell out on one part.

I'll just be using a centrifical clutch like on my Mini Bike and Go-Cart, they've worked fine.
So what Sprocket sizes would you guys recommend for a nice mix of speed/torque?

I'm not sure where I'll get wheels/tires, thinking I might just use some of those cheap treaded ones from Harbor Fright for the back, not sure about the front. Recommendations?

Thank you all so much,
Joseph

[Snakester]

Hey Joseph, It seems that you are really into this, it's cool to see! I built a "Cheap Racer" for a friends Kid last year for @$400.00. He has more fun w/ that than most people could have w/ a $10,000.00 Toy. It has a 4hp Honda engine that I bought @ a Yard sale/ 12T clutch 72T rear and an axle off a riding mower. I put 4 - Carlisle Knobby tires ( Look at the pic's at the one's I have for sale...You will need a big sprocket !)...That thing tears up the back yard. If you are going to ride mostly off road try a set up like this! Snakester:me:

[Frozen Bohemian]

Here are some of the things you need to consider

1. front spindle size. 5/8" or 3/4" ( 5/8" is more common and EZ to find)

2. Front wheel size and mounting. wheels with 5/8" bearing hubs are cheap and EZ to find..Harbor Freight wheels will work they are tall enough but kind of skinny and run 4" dia wheels. Go kart wheels are 5" dia or 6" dia but unless you find spindle mounted aluminum wheels you need to mount a bearing hub. gokart hubs are also 5/8".

3. Rear wheel drive. Live axle or not. Assume you want a live axle (both tires tearing up the Florida crabgrass). Common axle size is 1" diameter. So you will need bearings, drive hubs for wheels and a sprocket hub, and maybe a disc brake with hub. You also need to figure out how wide the axle needs to be (between 28 to 32")

4. Sprocket and chain. no. 35 is a common gokart chain size. Buy a clutch and rear sprocket to match. Clutch should fit the dia of you engine shaft, probably 3/4", rear sprocket needs to have a bolt pattern to match the hub. Common sprocket sizes are 60 tooth 66 tooth or 72 tooth. 60 goes fast but is slow starting out. here is a gear ratio chart. http://www.gokartsupply.com/ratios.htm (http://www.gokartsupply.com/ratios.htm)
who has a speed calculator???


This is the setup I started with:
3 1/2 hp Briggs motor with 3/4" shaft.
12 tooth front sprocket on centrifical clutch with a 60 tooth rear sprocket
It does lack some guts out of the hole, but it will get up to 26 mph.

On my sons gokart we have a similar 3 1/2 hp Briggs with the same inexpensive clutch 12 tooth, but with a 72 tooth sprocket. It is noticably quicker off the start and will also run 25 to 28 mph. ( but his engine is a lot newer than mine)

5/8" spindles up front.
4" wheels 3 1/2" wide by 10" tall.
Rear drive live axle. I have a 1" dia. steel axle 28" wide with 1" sprocket hub 2 13/16" bolt pattern with 60 tooth sprocket. I used 1" pillow block bearings I got at the local Fleet Farm store to mount the axle. Check out the photos I posted here. search "cheapo barstool".

Brakes???? Just a piece of wood rubbing the tire. Commonly called a scrub brake on inexpensive gokarts (now called funkarts).

We run no. 35 chain because it was easy to find where I live. I bought some stuff at Northern Tool, a local store but they also have a website.
12 tooth centrifical clutch.



I did use the $5.00 wheels from Harbor Freight on the front, they use 5/8" spindles,
On the rear I used 4" wheels bolted to drive hubs (also 2 13/16" bolt pattern)

When I upgrade the cheapo barstool I will change the tires and wheels to a gokart setup. 5" wheels 5" wide tires up front by 10" tall and 7" wide in rear, 11" tall. I found some on EBAY mounted on wheels for $50.
The tire/wheel combo really makes the look of a barstool.


Bottom line is take some time to learn what is commonly used for gokarts, check out some of the barstool pictured here and you will start to figure out what works together to get the look and performace you want.

[Ubel_Zum_End]

Okay awesome sounds good.
I believe we're gonna go with a live axel then.
I just ordered the Classic Cruiser Plans, though I think Mike Bean's asleep and hasn't sent them yet haha.

Can't wait to look them over.

Joseph.

[moto1fast]

You will love mikes plans! Very detailed and easy to follow! Cuts the guess work out of designing a good working frame!! Makes life a little easier!! LOL:laughing:
I got a set of the same plans after I built my dual wheel frame from scratch and made my barrel racer and my Dads BSR go together much quicker! Post picks of your progress!:thumb:

[Ubel_Zum_End]

Got the plans, printed them out on some nice card stock.
(I really hope Mike Bean doesn't mind, I didn't see anything about him not wanting us to print them >_>, not like I'm gonna give them away or anything haha.) Thanks Mike Bean, they look great :D

Anyway showed the plans to my dad, he likes it and says it looks like it'll be fun to build.
Anyway as said I think I'm just gonna use the 10" tires from Harbor Freight, like these: (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=30900)
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=30900

The bore is only 5/8" on those though, how do you guys recommend mounting these on the 1" axel? That's a problem I'm trying to figure out.

As said I don't have the money for a $200 set of back wheels and tires, so I need to figure out a way to use tires such as the ones I linked to.

Anyway this looks like it'll be a lot of fun, can't wait to get started.

Thanks so much guys,
Joseph

[Frozen Bohemian]

Here is the setup I used with my harbor freight wheels
I used tires and bought new steel wheels and a drive hub for about 30 bucks.

Hub:
SGL FL Kart Hub 4H 1in. Bore
Four-holes; 1 in. bore with 1/4 in. keyway. Use with our sprockets on live axles. Standard 2 13/16 in. bolt kart spacing. Fits rims #1340-1341

wheels
2 Piece 4 Hole Split Tire Rim — 4in. Dia.
Item# 1340
Features + Specifications
Has 2 13/16in. bolt circle. Will work with hub Item# 138291.
Fits tire 410 x 4.

I got mine local at Northern Tool, but you can find this stuff online anywhere.

[fenters2005]

i didnt know that you bought extra wheels, i thought you just took them to a machine shop to get them bored out and have the spindle mount taken off of them????

i bought the same setup pretty much still havent decided to run these or not....

hey frozen, you have it done on your "cheapo barstool". how does the cheap tires do? ruff riding? and another thing did your back tires get slick from riding it on the highway or is it from the brakes stoppin them.....

[Frozen Bohemian]

The cheap tires ride ok, not too rough, but they do wear quickly.
The biggest drawback is that they they do not run true. You need to wack 'em with a mallet or hammer to true them up. I have used them on other projects and noticed some are better than others. They are intended for low speed use......like walking speed...

I did buy some wheel haves to make the rear setup because it was easier than busting off the welded hub form the wheels. They are made in 2 pieces, one side is plain and the other side has the hub welded on. The 4"steel wheel halves were 9 bucks, cheap enough for me.

The rear tires are smooth due to driver intervention. I have, on more than one ocassion, slammed on the brakes at full speed to slide sideways to a stop.
Yeah, like the wife says...."grow up"........ha ha I dont think so.


On my new project I am stepping up to 5" aluminum gokart wheels and tires. I found a ton of 2 piece wheel halves for cheap and some decent tires too.
Over the past year I bought 4 sets of wheels and 4 sets of tires. The wheels averaged 5 bucks each and the tires were 10 bucks each. I did buy some front hubs and rear hubs new for 10 bucks each. So really a set of tires, wheels and hubs could be had for about 100 bucks.

[Ubel_Zum_End]

Alright awesome, thanks Frozen Bohemian.
Sorry I haven't posted in awhile, not much to say.

Anyway we cleaned out the garage, fixed the Air Compressor(120 PSI wheee.) Bought a Bench Grinder.

Got the Engines from my Uncle, he had two Honda 5.5HP GX160's.
Cleaned out the carbs and ect, they both fired right up. Run great.
I've heard they're really nice engines, anyone here used them personally?

They don't have Electric Start sadly, but they start so easily due to the Transistor Ignition anyway.

Gonna buy a nice 110v Mig Welder, and ect. There's a Steel Supply not far from here either so we're gonna work on getting that and getting started.

The engines are abit large-seeming, are they the same size as the Honda Clones everyone uses?
Gotta find a barstool, I'd really like to find one local though cause shipping is a pain.

Anyway everything looks good so far, can't wait to start building.

Joseph
PS: This topic isn't exactly about Engines anymore, is there another board one of the Mods could move this topic to which suites it better? Thanks.

[voodoo_stepchild]

It's good to see some youngsters in here for a change. Theres lots of people in here with a vast amount of knowledge that can help you in many many ways. Just ask a question and somebody will get you along your way to doing wheelies and wiping out in the gravel. Have fun and post some pictures on your progress


Voodoo

[Ubel_Zum_End]

So we got the steel tubing, cut part of it up. Bought an angle grinder, ect.
Gonna order parts soon.

Joseph

[Mike Bean]

Ok, got the hint about moving the thread. I flopped in into the Rims and Tires (I think this is where I moved part of it from before) anyways the thread looks complete from start to end, so I guess I will leave it here.

Lots of topics covered here, kind of hard to sort this one... :dizzy:

And Ubel, it is OK to print out your plans, that's what they are intended for. Just not resell or distribution.

Have Fun!

Mike Bean

[VashRazr83]

I'm not sure if anyone addressed this, but as far as gas and the price of it, I run high octane fuel, I think around 94, and put a full gas tank in mine, that was 100 miles ago,and it is no where near empty, with me running full thottle almost all the time. Just a nifty fact that I also didn't expect.